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Making mentoring meaningful: not just ticking the box
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Elaine Long
Welcome to the ECF Staffroom. I'm Elaine Long.
Mark Quinn
And I am Mark Quinn.
Elaine Long
We are programme leaders for the UCL Early Career Teacher Development Programme. Why are we in the staff room? We are here because this is where the best professional learning conversations always take place. This is where problems can be aired bluntly and where solutions can be explored.
Mark Quinn
Over the course of this series, we will hear the voices of different colleagues as they come in the ECF Staffroom. We will hear from early career teachers themselves and from the mentors and induction tutors who support them. We will talk about all things ECF, the challenges and the joys. So, why don't you enjoy a coffee with us, perhaps even grab a biscuit and sit down to half an hour of ECF Staffroom chat.
Welcome to the ECF staffroom Liam Anderson. We are a little bit embarrassed to be talking to you in the midst of your Easter holiday. It's just wrong. We shouldn't have been calling upon you at this time, but I hope you're resting. Hope you had a lie in this morning, didn't get out of your normal alarm clock time. We are really, really grateful for the for the time you're going to give us this afternoon with our podcast as ever, because we're inviting you into our staffroom and we offer you a full range of coffee and biscuits. So, what would you like?
Liam Anderson
It’s really good to join you in your staffroom today. So interestingly I wouldn't have a hot drink I don’t like any hot drinks actually. So, no coffee for me today, but some chocolate biscuits would be perfect. Anything with chocolate, perfect for me.
Mark Quinn
Sorry, I thought you were going to say your body is a temple. You wouldn't let caffeine pass your lips. Then you go for but then you go for the chocolate biscuits. So we can certainly supply some of those.
Elaine Long
Definitely. I think chocolate biscuits are in order. Maybe Easter shaped ones as well to celebrate the holiday. I think they definitely deserve those. We're really grateful for you being here. We know you bring a great deal of expertise to the staffroom today based on your blogs that you posted on Twitter and your other posts on Twitter.
We know you're particularly passionate about curriculum, which we want to get to later. But could I start off by asking you to introduce yourself for our listeners and tell them a bit about what your average day is like?
Liam Anderson
Absolutely, yes. So I'm a head of Department for Design Technology at a fairly large comprehensive school in Berkshire. I'm currently in my eighth year of teaching, don’t quite nowhere that's how it's going, it's flown by and I've actually been teaching at the same school since I graduated in 2015. So, my average day, I teach across art and the DT so, I can be in the morning doing work with year seven in art using clay.
The next minute I might then be in the food room doing something like a Victoria sponger in year eight, and then by the afternoon I might be teaching A-level product design looking at something like sustainability in design. So, usually I'll be flying around during the day between those different subjects, but all good fun.
Elaine Long
So I'm taking that you must have really refined your talent at managing students in big physical spaces, which sounds like my worst nightmare, because all I could think about when you describe those classrooms is all the things everywhere and the clay and tidying things up. It sounds like a very exciting but full and busy day.
So, what brought you there? What was it that got you into teaching? You know, made you want to stand in rings of children designing clay and other D and T activities?
Liam Anderson
Yeah. So, interestingly, the school I'm at now, I'm teaching is actually my secondary school when I was a child, so at that point, it wasn't the greatest school and I was quite inspired to once go into teaching and try and, you know, do things in a really good way and give young people the best start in life.
So, that's kind of where my interest first came from, and then as I kind of then went into it to GCSE and A-level, my favourite subjects are always the D&T, it’s quite interesting to be working on those practical elements, I’m creative and that was my passion. Then decided that yeah, I wanted to go on and be a design and technology teacher.
I went off to uni at Nottingham Trent for three years and studied secondary design and technology and in 2015 returned back to my secondary school, which was really exciting and quite unusual at the start. Lots of teachers there, he taught me so is quite interesting to be working back alongside them. Yeah, really, really great school, really great community. So was really excited to go out there and start my teaching career.
Elaine Long
I'm sure they were pleased to have you. Did you ever have any trouble with calling your old teachers by their first name? Because I know people find that quite cringe when they go back.
Liam Anderson
Yeah, it's quite a strange experience. Yeah. And then I've still actually, my when my colleagues at the moment she taught me catering when I was doing GCSE, so yeah. Going through my head, her been my teacher and then suddenly my colleague and having that different relationship quite strange. But now we get on really, really well. Say yes, basically.
Elaine Long
And where you a well-behaved pupil when you are at school?
Liam Anderson
Oh no, definitely not There’s of stories. Lots of interesting stories, certainly that colleague and lots of others could tell. So, no, I was certainly a naughty child but reformed now.
Elaine Long
You're a 14 year old self, dare I say it? Probably messing about a bit in your lesson will be very surprised. Something very special about your returning to the same school as the teachers. Interesting isn’t it that it’s always the way. Sometimes I think teachers are. Sometimes the naughtiest pupils and then they end up being teachers. I mean, there's no research to support that.
Mark Quinn
No, no, I deny that, I deny that entirely.
Elaine Long
I, of course, was it was exemplary pupil at school, of course I was. One thing that I really picked up on, Liam, is that not only does your passion for helping young people drive what you do, but what really comes out of what you're saying is your passion for your subjects and that driving what you do. I wondered if you could talk about one of your proudest moments as a teacher.
Liam Anderson
Yes. So I probably, I've got a few. Probably one of them. Yeah. Each year GCSE we involve our students in the design venture competitions. This national design competition run by the Design Museum and essentially students are tasked with designing a new product for the museum shop. But what's really exciting is it gives students the opportunity to work on real life brief, so everything they've been learning in the classroom, they can then put into a real life context, and it gives them opportunities to meet with designers, speak to them, pitch their ideas. So essentially what they would do in real world design practice and twice we then had a group of students who have been shortlisted. So, in 2019 we had a group of students who came in third place and there were over 16,000 students who entered that year nationally.
Then in 2020 we then had a team who won the most market ready product award, which is also a brilliant achievement. So, for me, I think that that's one of the biggest ones. I've been able to see students really succeed on a national level with their learning that they picked up in lessons and then apply that and create these really interesting creative products.
The first team I mentioned in 2019, we're looking at developing sustainable stationary so they created this this bamboo pencil case, and then in 2020, the team then developed this in which test moisture test of plant pot made from Cork, and it had a smart material. So you put it into your plant pot, if it was white, then you know your plant needs watering that if it detected moisture it would then turn green, so essentially it would change colour to let you know when to water the plant. So, really, really proud of students and be able to see them succeed on a national level for me is really proud achievement and really showcased the brilliance of the subjects within our school and on a wider scale as well.
Elaine Long
Yeah, I mean, that's a brilliant achievement and it really highlights to me that the potential of subjects like D&T to really inspire students and I wonder if you notice how that real world applicability enhances their engagement and motivation because that's something that subjects like D&T can really bring to students.
Liam Anderson
Yeah, definitely, and I think, you know, this is often a big thing in schools that, you know, we teach the curriculum for them to pass exams, pass a GCSEs, but actually those wider skills in that wider knowledge that actually, if they want go on into a career in D&T, there's lots of those transferable skills around problem solving, communication, being able to, you know, confidence to pitch and articulate their ideas, all of those things come through from those wider experiences, beyond just what we teach them as part of an exam specification, a really enriching and I think they can then see the real benefit and applicability of what they're learning in
everyday life.
They can see how people who are practicing designers, for example, use, what's being taught, rather than it just being are we just actually going to learn this because you might get questions on this in an exam at the end of the course. So yeah, I think it's really important that those wider skills and knowledge that we teach in and like I said, those opportunities see how they're actually used in practice are really important.
Mark Quinn
Liam, at the beginning you were listing all your typical day, you know, working with clay or baking a Victoria sponge. You lost me on Victoria Sponge, by the way. Can you just, just actually, can you just list for us the different disciplines that you're teaching at the moment this year?
Liam Anderson
Okay. Yes. So, obviously I mentioned arts so we all do the things around ceramics, more kind of fine arts for example. Then moving into D&T, we've kind of got an approach in D&T where we teach across the subject. So we don’t kind of have specialism, we kind of moved away from that, typically in terms of materials working, we do textiles, graphic design, woods, plastic, so you get a broad range, a broad spectrum.
Mark Quinn
You're doing resistant materials and graphics and food. So, there's a question here that, I mean you're not alone of course, there's, you know, fortunately there are some other technology teachers out there, although I do know it's a shortage subject for ITE. We get told, don't we, Elaine by science teachers and our program in particular that they get anxious because they might be a biologist, but they have to take physics and they have to teach chemistry and, you know, so some teachers, of course, go in teaching effectively any, many subjects, they are not as lucky like I was, I got to teach history most of the time, or Elaine teaching English. What prepares you for that? I mean, you know, just be honest about this. I mean, how much were you prepared for that during your initial teacher education or how much did you have to learn these things on the job?
What prepares a teacher to be able to teach across so many different subjects?
Liam Anderson
Yeah, it's a real challenge, definitely. Actually I was really lucky that the course I was on at Nottingham Trent, we were really encouraged and we really supported with our time at university to really develop skills across all those. But I think what's really important is actually, you know, trainees or new teachers going into schools, that actually the department is supportive with sharing that expertise and really collaborative in terms of not just subject knowledge, but delivery and planning with all of those different areas.as well.
It is a big challenge and actually a subject like design and technology, and I think probably the same you mentioned in what we saw, it's actually such a broad range of subject knowledge, you're never going to be an expert on all of those different areas. It's a massive challenge. But I think what's been really important for us and what worked well for us is that time we're actually as a team, we can come together, we can share expertise within our different specialisms, but that relies on time and actually that's, you know, in schools at the moment that's a big barrier, but that time to come together and share expertise, be collaborative as a team and not actually be working in isolation, which is really important, that we've got that that team approach.
Mark Quinn
Yeah, that has to be it and you know, we do know I'm aware of there are some teachers who are teaching maybe in smaller schools. You said you're teaching in a large comprehensive. So, you're going to have a number of other colleagues that you can draw upon. Some are working in smaller, smaller places and they might be the only physics teacher for the sake of argument, so, it is tough and so and a program such as ours can try to help with that. But, you know, there are limits. We know that there are limits in terms of the subject specificity. We do rely upon mentors, you know, offering some of that subject expertise and input, which, of course, is one of the jobs that you have in your school.
I'm going to talk towards curriculum because this is the thing that we dragged you onto the podcast in your Easter break, especially talk about and we do get we do hear, don't we, that new teachers, whether they are trainee teachers or their or their early career teachers, often feel there’s disconnect between the how they were prepared to become teachers when they were at university or at their skit when they were training around curriculum planning and lesson planning and sequencing of learning.
Then they turn up in some schools and, you know, they've got a very centralized way of, you know, this is how you teach and this is what you teach. Of course, that's not the case in every school, but we do hear this from time to time. So, you can reflect upon that in a second. And maybe also, you know, how you make use of the materials in our program, maybe particularly those module two materials which were about curriculum and subject knowledge.
How did you use those when you were working with your early career teacher?
Liam Anderson
Yeah, absolutely. So I think, yeah, quite often, like you said in schools, you will often, you know, go into a planned curriculum where you’re expected to follow certain schemes and learn your certain sequences and I’ll certainly experienced that before. I think for us at the moment, in our department we tried to have an approach in which obviously we have our kind of core concepts and knowledge and skills that obviously we want in our students to learn and be taught but we're quite open in terms of particularly with our ECTs and our trainees, about how they adapt those sequences of learning, how they might deliver in their own way, as long as they’ve got those core concepts and core learning.
So, I think, like you said is important actually, even at that early stage, as a trainee or an ECT, actually you've got exposure to that thinking behind curriculum planning because actually if suddenly, I’ve experience before, four, five years into your teaching, you’re suddenly asked to plan a scheme in learning, but you've never done that, we've never had one that's been provided you. Where do you start? What's the, you know, the thinking that goes behind that, what all those components that you actually need to think about to really develop a coherent sequence and think about progression.
So, it's a massive challenge and actually, like I said, our school, we try to really give trainees, early career teachers opportunity to be involved in that planning, think about how they're developing their own sequences.
If you think about, as you mentioned, Mark, about the UCL material. So, I think for us, particularly things around sequencing, around retrieval, for example, and consolidation, they've been two really key components that have come out from the module materials that we've worked on with our ECTs, because actually we know in schools at the moment curriculum is a big focus anyway.
They've been two really large components, for us as a school within the department we've been focusing on. So, having those conversations around, for example, retrieval and how you might work that into a scheme of learning where those points where you want to do that, what are those knowledge and skills you want to revisit? How are you actually then going to do that?
You know, retrieval in design and technology, for example, is probably very different to retrieval in English or science, for example, and by the nature of the subject. So, having that also subject specific conversation around those elements, a curriculum planning is also really important and how they might be done within D&T for example. So, yeah I think those materials from UCL have been really, really important.
The structure in those conversations quite often then in terms of kind of my mentor meetings, I'll have with ECTs will very often have curriculum documents with that scheme of learning or curriculum map. Quite often I ask ECTs to bring in some of their students work and we might look at sequences of work then how we might adapt and then look at some things not worked, actually what's the next part e need to do here to adapt to that.
So, rather than being, you know, let's tick off. Have you done all of these things in the scheme of learning that I’ve given you, we’ll actually look at the curriculum? What are those key things you want them to learn? Has it worked? If not what we can do to adapt or change and feeding back in to obviously what I doing through the UCL materials it might be then digging deeper into retrieval consolidation and how we might adapt and tweak that, so, yes that’s our kind of take on it.
Mark Quinn
That seems to be the quickest win, doesn't it. I mean if you, because obviously we want mentors working with their ECTs, is to talk about the discipline that they're actually teaching not just the skill, not just the sort of generic skills, but actually what am I teaching over the next few weeks?
If you can, as you say, you've got your curriculum planning out or samples of work out, then automatically that quest, that discussion becomes specific, specific to the phase you're teaching in, specific to the subject, you're teaching, the discipline, you're teaching within that rotation. That’s how, I mean, that's kind of a classic form of subject specific mentoring, isn't it?
You’re using, you might be using the UCL materials as a kind of launchpad for those discussions or discipline around those discussions, but actually you're talking about real lessons and real work that's being done.
Great. I'm really, really glad. Is that typical, is that what you do across most of the program or you know if you were doing that within module two but would that be typical across other parts of the program?
Liam Anderson
Absolutely. Yeah. Pretty much every mentor session, there would be a book out or a document out. Like you said, it’s important, actually, I think I’m quite conscious of that, like you said, we, you know, we look at these, these, these pieces of learning from the UCL materials but then actually, like you said, it's really important to bring that back to what actually we're doing within our subject.
So yeah, quite typical. We have a piece of work out or scheme of learning that's really focused on D&T and subjects and how we apply that to all subjects. Yeah.
Elaine Long
I really like the way as well that you have the student learning out there in the form of books and that you're linking what the ECTs are doing to the impact because we hear so often on the program, ECTs saying that the program is a repeat of what they've done on their ITT year. But, but of course, a lot of that can be mistaken with familiarity, the expertise. You may have heard about practice, which we know, but in actual fact, practice and treatment is incredibly hard to get right and it depends on the subject itself and it depends on lots of things. Or, you know, you may know about cognitive load theory, but how does this apply to our subjects and how do we know we're getting it right?
So, actually bringing it back to impact, I think, really raises the level of challenge around those discussions and really helps, I think, early career teachers to think about adaptive expertise and the extent to which they're applying those principles on research, their questions and having an impact. That sounds like a really interesting way of approaching it.
Liam Anderson
I think I'm just picking up on that Elaine. I think for me, I've always been really passionate about professional development and had a real thirst for it. And I think like I said, that actually even as an experienced teacher, you know, they use these core things, those core aspects of pedagogy. There's always opportunities where we need to refine or develop and actually some of those are really complex.
You mentioned around that repetitiveness, sometimes that people have said that between ITT and ECT, but actually I think some of those things are really complex and actually will take years to really refine and develop and I think certainly for me, what I really enjoyed about the ECF framework is actually, it's really brought out those rich discussions, certainly with the UCL materials really help structured those deep conversations where you actually are reflecting with your ECT and going into depth around developing these aspects of practice.
I was just thinking about a few weeks ago, we were looking, we went into then talking about scaffolding and I’ve got a whiteboard above my desk and we kind of spent about 40 minutes picking apart this D&T lesson about what does success look like and then breaking that down as components and then how we must scaffold those different aspects.
We went into this real depth of discussion around just this one aspect of one lesson and how we might scaffold back to actually what you said. There's lots of complexities there and there's always room for refinement developing practice. So, I think it's really important. Yeah.
Mark Quinn
Just while we're on the subject of your, you know, curriculum planning, Liam, do you want to give a shout out for your own blog right now? Is there any particular or post, you know, you would suggest that our listeners go and read.
Liam Anderson
Yes. So yeah, I’ve written in a few blog posts for the Design and Technology Teacher Education Group blog, bit of a mouthful, so it is aimed at yet supporting mentors and those involved in teacher education, specifically for D&T. I think there's lots of quite transferable stuff around there, around effective mentoring. One of my first articles are right for the blog was around modelling and scaffolding through mentoring.
When you're working with trainees or ECTs, going back to what we were talking about a moment ago, that actually, the complexity, for example, something like scaffolding actually, you know, if I said to a trainee or ECT as part of their feedback from a lesson, you know, you need to develop your use of scaffold and what actually what does that mean? How do they actually go about doing that?
What's really important, I think, particularly whether that’s through mentor meetings or more informal conversations, I'm actually supporting them to think about how they actually put those aspects of pedagogy into practice. So, you know, how do they actually do scaffold? Just telling them they need to develop that isn't going to support them, so explicitly, what are some strategies they might trial as an experience.
What my thinking behind scaffolding and how would I approach that and really making that feedback explicit? I think it's really important. So yeah, kind of way of went of on a tangent Mark, but yeah, I think would be particularly getting useful if you need mentoring, thinking about structuring those conversations and modeling and scaffolding.
Mark Quinn
Can people just Google you Liam, how would they find you. What's the best way for people to find you apart from your Twitter handle?
Liam Anderson
You could Google me, Google Liam Anderson, designing and technology. Probably, there'll be a few articles or things come up probably. I don't use LinkedIn or anything. So yes, Twitter is probably the best way and I'm always kind of tweeting various things. So yeah.
Mark Quinn
Yeah. And that's @LiamTAnderson
Liam Anderson
Yes, yeah.
Mark Quinn
And Anderson spelt the English way rather than the Icelandic way perhaps, or whatever, whatever it might be. Now that that's really, really good. And I actually kind of alluded to earlier as well, you know, when you're talking about kind of, kind of very practical classrooms that you're running, it is for those of us who, you know, we're used to students sitting behind desks and behaving themselves, not always, but getting equipment out and moving things around the room. That was always when I watched technology class lessons, when I was in that role, when I was at school, always thinking, how do they do that? But if you're a PE teacher or if you're a science teacher or if you're a drama teacher, if you're a music teacher, if you're an art teacher, in fact, probably the majority of our teachers out there are actually doing exactly that.
So modelling how they model, how you how you actually demonstrate in front of the class is a big, big art, the big skill that you bring to it and that we that new teachers have to learn and acquire the confidence in because I think there's a bit of a confidence thing there as well to do more of that while, you know, keeping everyone's attention, everyone's eyes on you.
I think those of us who talk on more bookish subjects always look upon people like you with a bit of respect to be honest and because I think you deserve it. Just on the you mentioned professional development a while ago as well, and you're clearly a person who's, you know, very serious about your own professional development. I know that you're doing one of the NPQs, so if you might say something a bit about that if you wish. But obviously, you know, there is a mentor development program sitting behind the early career framework programs. You're in the midst of doing that as well. Can just, you know, how useful has that been for you, you know, doing
the mentors study or online learning community sessions. I know you're working in Berkshire with the Berkshire Teaching School Hub. How's that been?
Liam Anderson
Yeah, personally I think really useful, if I think back to, I started mentoring actually, back in January 2018, I started mentoring the trainee teacher, but when I think back to that now, I kind of hadn't had any kind of training or any, any kind of support. I was just kind of thrown into that role.
I kind of over time it’s then being through networking with other mentors who are the colleagues, but I think certainly for me moving into then the new ECF program and certainly the training sessions has been, I think it's been really, really helpful for me as a mentor to really think about my approach, the onsite mentoring approach that that kind of feeds through, the programme has been really useful.
Thinking about, maybe between year one in year two, how that mentoring role might develop and change and it might be that going back to what I was talking about earlier. In year one, there's much more perhaps scaffolding and modelling needed in those conversations and that practice, where as you know, as you then move into year two, it might be all the time, but it might then be that it's more of a facilitative role that actually you’re allowing them to guide the conversation and what they're looking at and then you supporting and guiding with that. So, I think those different approaches to mentoring, onside approach have been really useful for me.
It's also helped me, you know, really reflect as a mentor. I think the other big thing that's been really useful in certainly in terms of UCL, in terms of the materials in the setup of the program, those mentor meeting activities and those questions have been really useful as well because again, if I think back to when I first started mentoring, I was probably asking questions that perhaps weren’t that useful at times.
So, I think having that structure from the program has been really useful for me to think actually how am I asking the right questions, probing questions with those supportive, directed questions are really going to develop my ECT that I'm working with to really think about and refine that practice.
Mark Quinn
That's interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, you've been mentoring for a bit before you came to our program and you know, you've been teaching eight years, so you're not new to the block. We know some of our mentors are much less experienced because that's just the nature of the job in England. You know, lots of these are very young, professional, and therefore greatness is thrust upon people at a, you know, at a tender age and other mentors are really experienced like yourself, who've been in mentoring for five, six, seven years. Some of them, so often, those materials have to serve all of the different purposes. So, it's really good to hear actually. You think that they've helped you, the actual mentoring materials themselves have helped you guide, you know, maybe discipline some of the discussions you've had
I think, before I pass over to you Elaine. I have to give a shout out, though, to Janet. Janet Roberts, who leads on ECF in Berkshire, where Liam is and of course, Janet was the main person behind all of our mentor development materials. She really did a huge job for us back, back in 2019, 2018.
So shout out to Janet if you're out there, Janet.
Elaine Long
Liam, I've been talking to you for about 30 minutes now and I've no idea how you fit it all in, particularly as you don’t drink coffee, maybe have some other source of caffeine. I don't know. It kind of links to my next question because I overwhelmingly, you know, some of the feedback from mentors on the early career framework program nationally, is there's not enough time for them to fulfil their role as mentors.
What's your take on that?
Liam Anderson
Yeah, I think, you know, I understand that that perspective, I think there is that, you know, if you think about the way the programme is now, for example, that pre-reading that preparation for both the mentor and ECT, then there’s the time when you then meet and discuss that and there would also obviously be times in between that when you have those informal discussions or you know reflections as well.
I think, you know, for me in my context in my school, we've been really lucky that our mentor time each week is being built into our timetables, that’s protected time that we got and we know that we've got that every week. There have been times during the year, you know, when things just happen, you know, it might be an event coming up or this being something going on where we've had to maybe change that time.
But I think whilst that it does take time to prepare for those sessions and do those mentor meetings, I think they're so, so valuable because going back to what I was talking about earlier, you know, that time to have that real in-depth discussion and dialog I think is so, so important, particularly that theory to practice element in the mentor materials and thinking about how, like we said, also subject specific an ECT then does that in their practice is really, really important to have that time to discuss support and develop the because otherwise how would we support that ECT to be the best possible teacher they can?
It's really important that they can, you know, professionally develop in the best way possible and fastest rate possible. So, it’s super, super important to have that time to these conversations. And I found that really valuable, even as a mentor. You know, each week for me to just spend that time for me to reflect is one that reflects on most different aspects of pedagogy and also my own practice. It makes me think about what I do as a teacher. Quite often I’ve gone into mentor meetings, and talked about giving an example on something I've done that hasn’t worked, how it was adapted, changed things. So, even for me as a mentor, actually, I found it really valuable to reflect on my own practice and what I do in the classroom and also keep my myself in the know if, you know, of current pedagogy and practice and evidence informs teaching. So, yeah, I think it's super important. I understand that the time thing, but I think is super, super important that time is given to, to really develop. Like I said, you know, it's helpful for me as a mentor, as well.
Elaine Long
I guess also as a head of department wanting to grow capacity in your team. If you invest in creating a team that can plan collaboratively, have a solid understanding of the principles behind effective curriculum planning, can then gather as a team that that's going to pay dividends for you in the long run as a leader of your team, because it's going to be a team game rather than you as a leader.
So in in some ways you're spending time to get to get time. I guess ii many ways.
Liam Anderson
Exactly, it builds that capacity and that ability for everyone to be involved in the basic functions that curriculum planning at work, absolutely.
Elaine Long
Sounds like a really inspiring team to be a part of at the start of your career. I'm sure they really enjoy it. How would you advise ECTs to plan for mentor meetings?
Liam Anderson
I think the biggest thing for me, I think is really important those mentor meetings, is that it's really made subject specific. Like I mentioned earlier, quite often I'll go along, might bring some of my student’s work, ask them to bring some, for example, because actually we don't want it to just be, I'm very conscious, I don’t want it to just be a tick box that we've met for an hour each week.
We've done the, you know, the session that's on UCL. I want it to be a really useful hour that actually the ECT can take away something. They're going to think about something, they're going to do that week or they're going to try in their practice, will then come back the next week, reflect on how that's gone.
It might be actually as well, you know, we haven't necessarily stuck religiously each week to all of the sessions. It might be that we spend a couple of weeks on one particular thing we might have changed, so, that adaptability I think is really important for the needs of your ECT. But like you said, we touched on earlier, I think is so, so important that it's made subject specific that those conversations are had.
So, actually you’re building that capacity for them to be more independent, to be involved in things like curriculum planning, but also being flexible, adaptable to the needs of your ECT because ultimately, you know, the whole purpose of it is to develop them and actually, if it's just the tick box thing to say, we've done it this week, really generic session, what's the point. We want to be useful having an impact on the ECTs development. So yeah.
Elaine Long
And in terms of that, the sort of examples provided in the self-study, obviously they're not always going to relate to a secondary D&T classroom. How would you approach those in terms of making those relevant and subject specific?
Liam Anderson
Yeah, I think that's really important. And yeah, we've quite often found it doesn't tend to be and won’t intend to D&T every week, so quite often then, it might be something guide an experience the ECT has had or what I’ve had in terms of student’s work or particular lesson, quite we’ve looked to other wider reading.
So, like I mentioned about say the blogs for example, there might be other people that have written blog that we might bring into those discussions also wider readings, so like the learning to teach book series, the D&T ones being really useful. So, I suppose it's just bringing in that, that kind of wider reading, those wider experiences that really helped inform those more subject specific reflections and discussions.
Elaine Long
Really interesting, thank you. Lastly because we don't want to take up all your holiday time talking to us, we give every guest a Post-it note on which to write some advice on and it's up to you what you write on your Post-it note and where you want to stick your Post-it note. I'm going to hand you over your Easter themed Post-it note, and I'd like you to tell me what you're going to write on it and where you'd like to stick it.
Liam Anderson
Okay, So I think I would write in it, to remember the positives every day, and I think that would go in all in our staff room and I think to me, I think very conscious about this at the moment of the pressures of teaching. We know there's lots going on in schools at the moment and actually often we can be consumed by all of those things that are going on and those negatives and we'll remember that a bad lesson, you know, that thing that mucked up our day, actually the positives that there are every day and there are often lots of those positives we tend to forget about those.
So yeah, really remembering those are the things that motivate us to keep going on knowing we are making a difference is so, so important. So yeah, that would be it.
Elaine Long
Thank you. I think people will really benefit from that because it's very easy to be consumed by the difficulties and the challenges which are many, many and plenty in teaching. But yes, then focus on the positives is a really, really good place to end the podcast. Actually, I think we can hear a bell.
Mark Quinn
I can. You might be in the midst of our Easter holidays, but we're in the staff room, so there is a bell that that's our customary cue, Liam, to draw the conversation to a close. We're really, really grateful for your insights and your passion. Actually, that's one of my favorite interviews. We've done the whole three series so far.
That's really, really brilliant. Thank you. We might even have you again sometime, because I have a feeling we could have asked you many more questions. But we won't. We won't. For now, we'll just let you go back to all that planning that you'll be doing and more blogging, I'm sure. Liam, thank you very much and good luck with the rest of your ECF work and your NPQ and everything else.
Liam Anderson
Thank you, really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Mark Quinn
Our thanks go to Liam Anderson, who is a mentor on year one and two of our program for sharing a chocolate biscuit with us in the ECF staffroom. Liam is a design and technology and art teacher at Trinity School in Newbury, Berkshire and he tweets @LiamTAnderson.
Elaine Long
Please do get in touch with us. If you would like to talk about your ECF experience. We especially want to hear from a range of voices. And lastly, we hope you will join us next time for a biscuit and a chat with another colleague in the ECF staffroom.
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